Posts by Cold Steel

5

Autocratic Rule: Could It Happen?

by Cold Steel in

first the bible students represented an insulated layer.

they were the faithful and discreet slave of jehovah who were expected to guide the people in all matters of overall import.

but eventually someone noticed that in the first century, the seven churches were not independent, but had a council to guide them in weightier matters.

Cold Steel

I've been searching for Franz's book and have been unable to find it.

Anyone have a copy in PDF?

7

Reading Journal To Bethel

by Cold Steel in

ray publisherer interviewed one-time bethelite peon "brock talon" about four years ago and i'm now reading talon's book journey to bethel.

for those of you who may not be jws (and even those who were and are), that journey provides a fascinating insight into the pecking order at "god's house"... at least how it was in the early 80s.

and it's a book even the rank-and-file faithful would find amusing.

Cold Steel

Well, the more the merrier.

Do we have any Bethelites who post regularly here?

I've always been curious about their interaction with the GB members there. The Brock Talon (where do they get these names?) fellow says interacting with GB members is the closest thing to hobknobbing with Abraham and Moses that a JW could imagine! These are men who have a direct line to God, he said. But every chance they get, they deny having any sort of communication or even inspiration from God. Doesn't that mean they're just like everyone else, though?

If you're a devout JW and brand new to Bethel, and you find your elevator door opens that first week and a GB member steps inside. How is that like riding with Moses? Moses actually had conversations with God. He also wrought many miracles by the power God gave him. But what have "the Slave" done, lately or in the past? The only way they can stop the elevator is to hit the button just like you or anyone else.

I'm not saying they have to part the Red Sea, but shouldn't they at least be plugged in at some point? If they're great scholars or notable thinkers, I could see a little hero worship when the doors opened, but it seems their chief claim to fame seems to be power.

26

Ranting

by FedUpJW in

please excuse me for long-winded ranting.

i know, as do most of us here that "love" is not something that the jdub's are known for except in their deluded, feeble minds.. i can handle their hypocrisy when it is directed at me, but when it is aimed at family who for decades have genuinely been the type of jw that the watchtower presents to the public, and when it is motivated by pure hate, then i get pissed!.

my mother was dunked in the 1940's and my father in the 1950's.

Cold Steel

As an outsider to the religion, I believe the one thing missing to the JWs that makes them so despised by its members and former members is kindness. Charity. It gets lost in the laws, rules and discipline of the system.

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth. (1 Corinthians 13)

It's not enough to just donate to the poor. Charity involves a giving of the heart and soul as well as one's sustenance. How can one rejoice in the truth while thinking evil of one's brethren, and how can one do that if he or she is engaged in spiritual warfare such as shunning, which is designed to increase despair and break up family and friends?

As the apostle noted, charity "suffereth long and is kind." It envieth not, meaning it doesn't seek to be an elder or result in a higher pecking order. It's not "puffed up" in arrogance or pride. Or smuggness. And it rejoiceth not in iniquity (and what's shunning if not rejoicing in someone else's iniquity?).

One may read the entire New Testament and not find a single instance of Jesus treating one with such reproach. Or his followers. I recently read of one GB member who grilled his fellow Bethelites on the creation days and various laws given in the days of Moses. To him those things were what was important. Discipline. Regulations. But when it comes to simple acts of kindness, compassion -- something that can't, and shouldn't, be placed on a weekly record, there's apparently no point in it.

7

Reading Journal To Bethel

by Cold Steel in

ray publisherer interviewed one-time bethelite peon "brock talon" about four years ago and i'm now reading talon's book journey to bethel.

for those of you who may not be jws (and even those who were and are), that journey provides a fascinating insight into the pecking order at "god's house"... at least how it was in the early 80s.

and it's a book even the rank-and-file faithful would find amusing.

Cold Steel

Ray Publisherer interviewed one-time Bethelite peon "Brock Talon" about four years ago and I'm now reading Talon's book Journey To Bethel. For those of you who may not be JWs (and even those who were and are), that journey provides a fascinating insight into the pecking order at "God's House"... at least how it was in the early 80s. And it's a book even the rank-and-file faithful would find amusing.

One of his stories is how the GB picked out the Disney movie Fantasia! for one of their showings. Everything was fine until the short, "Wizard's Apprentice" played. Despite the fact that the GB selected it and members were present, a number of Bethelites got up and walked out. He went on to describe how it was a center of controversy for months afterwards.

For those who may not have read it or heard the interview:

https://youtu.be/nVz-JXx4bpc

I had no idea the pecking order worked the way it did. From the day he arrived at the airport (and wasn't picked up) to the day he finally called it quits, he learned what it was to start at the bottom and stay there. And though he went there to serve God with humility with others, he found the competitive spirit among the staff and the personal intrusions just too much. On the other hand he did seem to respect many of the members of the GB.

BTW, Talon's books are available on Amazon's e-books.

5

Autocratic Rule: Could It Happen?

by Cold Steel in

first the bible students represented an insulated layer.

they were the faithful and discreet slave of jehovah who were expected to guide the people in all matters of overall import.

but eventually someone noticed that in the first century, the seven churches were not independent, but had a council to guide them in weightier matters.

Cold Steel

First the Bible students represented an insulated layer. They were the faithful and discreet slave of Jehovah who were expected to guide the people in all matters of overall import. But eventually someone noticed that in the first century, the seven churches were not independent, but had a council to guide them in weightier matters. These council members were sometimes divided and even given to bickering on occasion; thus, though they received revelation on occasion, they weren't inspired in all things and they added consistency to the church.

But now that they've edged out everyone else and they have their Governing Body, what's the chance of going with a one-man rule?

29

I Smell Fear...

by pale.emperor in

msoneone of fb sent me this.

looks like they know they're being exposed as the frauds they are.

this plus the theme of the next convention "don't give up" just reeks of desperation.. stash: /intesoft-inc.appspot.com/post/b21fe47ca2644a0ea2f6e28fe6401145.html

Cold Steel

Mr. FLIPPER...So what you're trying to say is that you think the Governing Body may not be inspired! Armageddon was forecast to happen in 1879. Well, how do you know it didn't happen? Were you around in 1879?

So you really don't know, do you?

How do you know it didn't start then in Heaven? Then in 1925, there was "silence in Heaven for a half an hour." Then after that spiritual silence! Then in 1975, it resumed invisibly in Heaven. Then in about 2009 the Governing Body was given new light, wherein the WT Society was shown that Jesus' prophecy of a "generation" actually referred to a single overlapping of generations of about 70 to 80 years each! And instead of being grateful, you're critical! God extended the time for "Armageddon" or "end" to happen further into the 21st century. But Armageddon is raging right now as the inspired leaders have said.

You'll see.

Eventually.

Soon.

Very soon.

Yep...any moment now.

Right around the corner.

You'll see.

Soon.

43

Atheism would not appeared if …

by venus in

· if religions were immune to division.

· if scriptures were immune to scientific errors.

· if religious leaders were immune to hypocrisy.

Cold Steel

Venus » You conclude: "Thus, if there is a God, it stands to reason He would reveal Himself...and conceal Himself." No influence of God is seen in religions, scriptures and believers which in turn gave reason for the appearance of atheism. For example, one high profile atheist is known for his question: “Why do people kill in the name of God if He really exists?”

It's an outstanding question, and one you won't get an argument from me on. If God is as powerful as the scriptures proclaim, He hardly needs anyone fighting His battles for Him. The Jews have been on the bloody end of many swords because of this, as have been the early Christians, scientists, protestants, Mormons and many other religions, and yes, even the Jehovah's Witnesses. But it bothers me that the JWs are so quick to celebrate the prospects of coming destruction of others. There's a smuggish glee about it. Shortly before the Civil War ravaged this country, an old Mormon prophet told the people that wholesale destruction was going to decimate the nation: “There will also be a day when...your very hearts and your inmost souls will melt within you because of the scenes that many of you will witness.” (Remarks by President Heber C. Kimball, Delivered in the Bowery, Great Salt Lake City, Sunday Morning, August 16, 1857). Whether he had special insight or was just making a pitch, what he said did come to pass. But a person would have to be a monster to want to see someone suffer horribly or take delight in it. During that war, the people of Missouri and Ohio were horribly treated, just as the Mormons had been. After the Mormons had been routed from their homes, a divine curse was placed on the people who had driven them from their farms, homes, shops and lands. Less than twenty years later, federal troops (with the full support of President Lincoln) evacuated those same homes, drove the people out, confiscated their livestock, then burned the homes and farms down, leaving the people to fend against the bitter cold weather. It was called General Order Number 11.

In the 1840s, Joseph Smith told his (non-Mormon) attorney and friend, Alexander Doniphan, not to avail himself of the land speculation going on in that part of the country. “God’s wrath hangs over Jackson Country,” Smith said. “God’s people have been ruthlessly driven from it, and you will live to see the day when it will be visited by fire and sword. The Lord of Hosts will sweep it with the besom of destruction. The fields and farms and houses will be destroyed, and only the chimneys will be left to mark the desolation."

Decades later, many of the bloodiest battles were fought there. Doniphan, personally witnessed the fulfillment of Smith’s prophecy. One witness of the aftermath wrote: “In the spring of 1862 my regiment went south, and it was during that time that ‘Order No. 11’ was issued, but I was back there again in 1864, during the Price raid, and saw the condition of the country. The duty of executing the order was committed to Colossians W. R. Penick’s regiment, and there is no doubt but that he carried it into effect, from the howl the copperhead papers made at the time. I went down the Blue river, we found houses, barns, outbuildings, nearly all burned down, and nothing left standing but the chimneys which had, according to the fashion of the time, been built on the outside of the buildings. I remember very well that the country looked a veritable desolation.” Doniphan himself wrote that as he saw the remnants of the chimneys and homes that he couldn't help but recall Smith's prophecy. But even though many of these people richly deserved their fates, it would be heartless not to pity them.

The only time God required His people to kill was in battle and in self defense, and it was to cleanse the land God gave them. In the land of Canaan, the Israelites actually offered many of the peoples peace for safe passage. Some took advantage of it while others wouldn't bargain. It was clear from the revelations to Moses and Joshua that the Lord did not want His people interacting with heathen nations. But these people were universally not good people. They took part in satanic rites, including highly degrading sexual practices and infant sacrifice. They would beat drums to down out the cries of infants as they were burned alive. The Lord universally wanted to rid Canaan of these peoples and practices. But these are the only places where the Lord ordered His people to kill anyone. Sadly, most decisions to kill are made by man, not God.

This is entirely true of Islam to this day.

Caedes » Dark matter has been measured, indirectly through its gravitational effect on matter. Science isn't in the business of making wild suggestions based on nothing more than hearsay and speculation, that would be the job of people who believe in the supernatural. Yes, the definition of your god is probably that it is supernatural.

Science may not be in the business of making wild suggestions based on nothing more than hearsay and speculation, but it's far from unheard of! I agree that science uncovers truths man knows little of, yet it's naive to say it's not political and bull headed at times.

I would prefer the word supersensible.

43

Atheism would not appeared if …

by venus in

· if religions were immune to division.

· if scriptures were immune to scientific errors.

· if religious leaders were immune to hypocrisy.

Cold Steel

Being smart is one thing. Acquiring wisdom takes time. Perhaps in fifty years this kid will have a different take on things.

43

Atheism would not appeared if …

by venus in

· if religions were immune to division.

· if scriptures were immune to scientific errors.

· if religious leaders were immune to hypocrisy.

Cold Steel

Venus, I can see what you're saying, but if you read the great patristic scholars and churchmen (both Jewish and Christian), religion isn't painted with your brush. How would you define "supernatural" for example? Is God supernatural? Not if he exists. How about dark matter? Neither can be seen, felt or measured.

How about miracles? How difficult would it be to change water into wine if one understood and had mastery over string dynamics in science? Could advanced beings use it to create worlds, clad beings with spirit, then matter? Part the Red Sea? If God exists, and if he's revealed himself to us as the scriptures state, it would stand to reason that He would be a master scientist. And according to Genesis, God not only is plural ("we," "us"), there also appears to be a female element ("male and female, in his image"). That man is incapable of comprehending the worlds God creates should be no more difficult to accept than quantum mechanics, which we haven't even touched.

God has repeatedly told man than he (Man) is completely unable to understand the things of God at this point of his, Man's, development. If the Hebrew prophets simply made God up, they did an outstanding job of consistency over the ages -- more so than any other theology.

Thus, if there is a God, it stands to reason He would reveal Himself...and conceal Himself.

But this is the key to theology.

43

Atheism would not appeared if …

by venus in

· if religions were immune to division.

· if scriptures were immune to scientific errors.

· if religious leaders were immune to hypocrisy.

Cold Steel

Religion Would Never Have Appeared:

If science were immune to division
If text books were immune to scientific errors
If scientific leaders were immune to hypocrisy

That means science created religious people. And in comparison with scientists who mostly followed their grandparents’ observations, religious people with revealed teachings fared better because they had thought out life far more roundly than those who were blindly scientific.

Not surprisingly, Jesus taught his disciples, but eschewed hypocrisy (Mathew 7:21-23) because he knew that mere belief in God is not the sole factor in the final judgment, but God goes by one’s attitude and commitment to that which they'd been taught (Mathew 25:31-36; 8:11-12).

Depends on how one looks at it.